amount without any greatly increased taxation. and consequently I support the resolution.
The COLONIAL TREASURER-Sir, I should like to make a few remarks with regard to the offer at present before the service. I should be very sorry if any vote of mine given to-day should give the impression that the Service was satisfied with the offer that has been made; on the contrary, a dissatisfied feeling is evident in that only a very small minority have been found willing to accept its terms. We see no reason why we should be treated in the matter of Exchange Compensation in a less favourable way than the Civil Servants of India, Ceylon, and the Straits Settlements have been, (hear, hear,) unless indeed the reason is to be found in the report of the Retrenchment Committee which insinuated that the finances of the colony were not then in such a position as to enable us to be treated in the same way. That insinuation, I think, must have been due to a want of information as to the state of the colony, and as I, as Treasurer, was not applied to for any figures bearing on its financial position, I presume that the members arrived at their conclusions without having paid very much attention to the actual state of the case, for I maintain, sir, that the colony is very well able to offer its civil servants as favourable terms as those granted to the civil servants in the neighbouring colonies and India. I say, sir, and I hope I may be excused the warmth of my language, I consider we are placed as regards our remuneration in an absolutely despicable position. We have to keep running, cap in hand, between the Colonial Office and this Chamber, begging that the Service of a colony called "first class" may obtain something like a fair rate of pay. I can imagine nothing better calculated to destroy the prestige of the Service and impair its efficiency.
I have often thought it would be a good thing if a Commission, whether Royal or appointed locally, matters not, would sit to decide what class of civil servants was desired for this colony. If the same class as that which joined formerly is desired, then I maintain that the pay must approximate closely to the pay we drew formerly. If it is considered that an inferior class of servant would be quite sufficient for the needs of the colony, well and good, though I doubt whether the colony would be satisfied when it got it. One advantage would be that the applicants would know once for all whether they were to regard their offices as first class, second class, or third class appointments. At present, I maintain, and I challenge any unbiassed critic to contradict me, that, while our appointments are held out to us as first class, the pay attached to them is by no means of that nature. The consequent dissatisfaction existing throughout the entire Service seems very natural.
I would like, in order to show that it is not merely a case of the wish being father to the thought, to put before the members of this Council the difference between our pay now and what it was when I joined the service, and for this purpose, I think it reasonable to take 50 per cent. of our pay as the portion required directly or indirectly for gold disbursements. Now, I find that, notwithstanding the increases that have been granted to us in dollars, the amount which an officer can remit has fallen in the following ratio. To begin with, H.E. the Governor, in 1882 (the date at which I joined the service) with exchange at 3s. 9¼d., he could remit with half his pay £2,262; to-day, with exchange at 2s.1d. £1,302; the Colonial Secretary, in 1882 £679; to-day £506; the Colonial Treasurer, in 1882 £566; to-day £250; the Surveyor-General, in 1882 £543; to-day (the Director of Public Works) £347; the Postmaster-General, in 1882 £152; to-day £231; the Registrar-General, in 1882 £566; to-day £354; the Harbour Master, in 1882 £452; to-day £281; the Chief Justice, in 1882 £1,131; to-day £625; the Puisne Judge, in 1882 £769; to-day £497; the Registrar of the Supreme Court, in 1882 £512; to-day £281; the Attorney-General, in 1882 £452; to-day £437, but as the Colony now insists on getting the whole of his service instead of a portion only as formerly, he stands in the same position as the others; the Captain Superintendent of Police, in 1882 £475; to-day £281; the result being, sir, that after allowing for the increase in dollars we have received, the average loss to those leading officials amounts to £300 per head per annum. It follows that, either we were grossly overpaid when we arrived or that we are grossly underpaid now, and I maintain that the latter is the case.
Now, what is the offer of the Secretary of State? Is it to restore us to the position we held when I came? Far from it. The result is to reduce the loss I have shown by some 34 per cent., but only on the condition that we shall suffer a new loss of from 25-28 per cent. on our leave pay. I do not think any member of this Council would propose that of his own initiative. I can only suppose that the Secretary of State has done so under the impression that the financial condition of the Colony was desperate and that the drawback was necessary. That drawback amounts to £1,400, which is to be taken from the Civil Service and distributed amongst the people of this Colony. The reply of the large majority of the civil servants to this offer is that the proposed increase by no means places us in such a position that we can afford to lose 24.8 per cent. of our pay when in England. The expenses of removal are considerable, especially with a wife and children, and it seems the least suitable time to reduce one's pay. If the Colony was really in financial straits, and could not afford for a time to maintain the pay of its Civil Service, as has at times happened in other colonies, of course, we should expect to bear our share of the loss, but the colony has never been, since I came to it, in such straits, and it is not in such straits now, and the Service therefore earnestly hopes that the Secretary of State will grant us at least as favourable terms as have been granted to the Straits Settlements, Ceylon, and India, even with which, we shall, as I have pointed out, not be restored to the position we occupied when I came to the colony. I therefore wish to say that I merely vote for compensation to the Civil Service to the extent of $80,000 and by no means intend to imply that I concur in the other part of the proposal, namely, the reduction of leave pay, which is at present no more than sufficient for our needs.
The HARBOUR MASTER-I merely wish to say that my vote will be given in the same way as that of the Treasurer, and for this amount of money, which is by no means, in my opinion, what we have a right to expect. I merely vote for that sum without prejudice to any other opinion that may be expressed later on as to the pay at home.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL-I should like to say a few words on this vote. There seems to be a general impression abroad that within the last two or three years a very large percentage, some 35 per cent., has been added to the salaries of the officers of the Government and that consequently, even if the dollar has fallen somewhat in value, they must get off the one thing against the other and consider themselves fairly well off as a whole. I do not think that those who hold that view have very carefully gone into the matter. In some instances, 35 per cent. was added. I have never seen it stated that to counterbalance that, there were various conditions imposed on those who accepted it, namely, a considerable reduction in their leave pay and compulsory joining of the Widow and Orphans Fund, which takes 4 per cent. of their salaries. Not all officers receive this increase.
It is unpleasant to refer to personal matters, and I would not mention my own case did I not think it a duty to prevent misapprehension, because I feel sure the people of Hongkong would be the last to refuse what they know to be right. It is because they do not know the circumstances that this misapprehension exists. In the 1877 blue book, the salary of the Attorney-General of this Colony was in sterling; it was £1,000 per annum sterling, in addition to which he received several fees, and he had private practice. In 1881, there came so able a man here who stayed a long time, the Hon. E. L. O'Malley. Before he came, an alteration was made, and the £1,000 sterling was changed into $4,806, but allow me to point out that at that time, as you will find if you refer to your tables of exchange, it was precisely the same thing. There was scarcely any difference at all in the gold values of those two salaries; still, he had his fees and his private practice. I do not know what that was because I was not here. I came under these circumstances. I had a telegram when I was Chief Justice of another colony offering me this appointment. I was not to have private practice, but I was to have $7,800 per annum. I had no means at the time of inquiring whether fees would be payable to me. I had been Attorney-General in another colony where fees were a valuable part of my emolument. I came here, and when I got here, I was told...
amount without any greatly increased taxation. and consequently I support the resolution.
The COLONIAL TREASURER-Sir, I should like to make a few remarks with regard to the. offer at present before the service. I should be very sorry if any vote of mine given to-day should ve the impression that the Service was satis- ed with the offer that has been made; on the contrary, a dissatisfied is it that only a very small minority have been found willing to accept its terms. We see no reason why we should be treated in the matter of Exchange Compensation in a less favourable way than the Civil Servants of India, Ceylon, and the Straits Settlements have been, (hear, hear,) unless indeed the reason is to be found in the report of the Retrenchment Committee which insinuated that the finances of the colony were not then in such a position as to enable us to be treated in the same way. That insinuation, I think, must have been dus to a want of information as to the state of the colony, and as I as Treasurer was not applied to for any figures bearing on its financial position I most presne that the members arrived at their conclusioos without having paid very mnoh attention to the actual state of the case, for I maintaiv, sir, that the colony is very well able to offer its civil servants as favourable terma as those granted to the civil servants in the neighbouring colonies and India. I say. sir. and I hope I may be excused the warmth of my tan-i guage, I consider we are placed as regards our remuneration in an absolutely despicable posi. tion. We have to keep running, enp in hand. between the Colonial Office and this Chamber, begging that the Service of a colony called Best class may obtain something like a fair rate of pay. I can imagine nothing better calculated to destroy the prestige of the Service and impair its officieey. I have often thought it would be a good thing if a Commission, whether Royal or appointed locally matters not, would sit to decide what class of civil servants was desired for this colony
If the same class as that which jained formerly is desired then I maintain that the pay most approximat re closely to the pay wa drew fromly it is considered that an inferior class of servate would be quite sufficient for I the needs of the colony well and good, though I doubt whether the eclón: woa'l balis.ied en it got it. Oos advantage would be that the applicants would know once for all whether they were lo regard their offices as first class. second cines, or third class appointments. At pre. sent I maintain, and I challenge suy unbiassed critic to contradict me, that, while our appoint- ments are held out to us as first class, the pay attached to them is by no menas of that nature. The consequent dissatisfaction existing throughout the entire Service seems very natural. I would like, in order to show that it is not merely a case of the wish being father to the thought, to put before the members of this Council the difference between our pay now and what it was when I joined the service, and for this purpose I think it reasonable to take 50 per cent. of our pay as the portion required directly or indirectly for gold disbursements. Now Ind, that notwithstanding the increases that have been granted to as in dollars the amonut which an officer can remit has fallen in the following ratio. To begin with H.E. the Jovornor, in 1842 (the date at which I joined The service) with exchange at 3s. 94d., he could remit with half his pay £2,262, to-day, with ex- change at 2s.ld. £1302; the Colonial Secretary. in 1882 £679, to-day £506; the Colonial Treasurer, in 1832 £566, to-day £250; the Surveyor-General, in 1882 £543. to day (the Director of Public Works) £847; the Postmaster-General, în 1882 £152, to-day £231; the Registrar-General, in 1882 £566, to-day £354; the Harbour Master, in 1882 £452, to-day £281; the Chief Justice, in 1882 £1,131, to-day £625; the Puisue Judge, in 1882 £769 to-day £497; the Registrar of the Supreme Court, în 1882 £51a. to-day £281; the Attorney-General, in 1882 £452, to-day £437, bat na the Colony now insists on getting the whole of his service instead of a portion only as formerly he stands in the same position as the others; the Captain Superintendent of Police, in 1882 £475, to-day £281; the result being, sir, that after allowing for the increase in dollars wa have received, the average loss to those leading officials amounts to £300 per head per annum. It follows that, either we were grossly overpsid when we arrived or that we are grossly underpa'd now, and I maintain that the latter is the case. Now, what is the offer of the Secretary of State P
Is it to restore as to the position we held when I came? Far from it. The result is to reduce the loss I bave shown by some 34 per cent., but only on the goudition that we shall suffer a new loss of from 25-28 per cent. on our leave pay. I do not think any member of this Council would pro- pose that of his own initiative. I can only suppose that the Secretary of State has done so under the impression that the financial condition of the Colony was desperate and that the drawback wa necessary. That drawback amounts to £1,400, which is to be taken from the Civil Service and distributed amongst the people of this Colony. The reply of the large majority of the civil servants to this offer is that the proposed increase by no means places us in such a position that we can afford to lose 24.8 per cent. of our pay when in England. The expenses of removal are considerable, especially with a wife and children, and it seems the least suitable time to reduce one's pay. If the Colony was really in financial straits, and could not afford for a time to maintain the pay of its Civil Service, as has at times happoned in other colonies, of course we should expect to bear our share of the loss, but the colony has never been, since I came to it. in such straits, and it is not in sneh straits now, and the Service therefore earnestly hopes that the Secretary of State will graut us at least as favourable terms as have been granted to the Straits Settlements. Ceylon, and India, even with which, we shall, as I have pointed out, not be restored to the position we occupied when I came to the colony. I therefore wish to say that I merely vote for compensation to the Civil Service to the extent of $80,000 and by no means intend to imply that I colour in the other part of the proposal, namely, the reduction of leave pay, which is at present uo more than sufficient for our needs.
The HARBOR MASTER-I merely wish to 667
for what it is worth that my vo'o will be given in the same way as that of the Treasurer, aud for this amount of money. which is by no means, in my opinion, what we have a rirbt to expect. Imeroly vote for that sum without pre judice to suv other opinion that may bs - pressed later on as to the pay at home.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL-I shonld like to say a few words on this vote. There seems in be a general impression abroad that within the last two or three years a very large percentage, somə 35 per cent., has been added to the salaries of the officers of the Government and that conne- quently, even if the dollar has fallen somewhat in value, they must get off the one thing against the other and consider themselves fairly well off as a whole. I do not think that those who hold that view have very carefully gone into the matter. In some in- sta ces 35 per cent, was added. I have never seen it stated that to counterbalance that there were various conditions imposed on those who accepted it, namely, a considerable reduction in their leave pay and compulsory joining of the Widow and Orphans Fund, which takes + per cent, of their salaries. Not all officers receive this in- crease. It is unpleasant to refer to personal matters and I would not mention my own case did I pot think it a duty to prevent mis- apprehension, becane 1 feel sare the people of Hongkong would be the last to refuse what they know to be right. It is because they do not know the circumstances that this misapprehen- sion exists. In the 1877 blao book the salary: of the Attorney-General of this Colony was in! sterling; it was £1,000 per annum sterling, in addition to which he received several fees, ! and he had privato practice. In 1981 there came so able man here who stayed a long time, the Hon. E. L. O'Malley. Before he came an alteration was made and the £1,000, sterling was changed into $4,806, but allow me to point out that at that time, as you will find if you refer to your tables of exoliange, it was precisely the same thing. There was scarcely i any differance at all in the gold values of those two salaries; still, be bad bis fees and his private practice. I do not kuow what that was because I was not bore. I came under these circumstances. I had a telegram when I was Chief Justice of another colony offering me this appointment. I was not to have private i practice, but I was to have $7,800 per annum. I had no means at the time of inquiring whether fees would be payable to me. I had been At torney-General in another colony where fees were a valuable part of my smolument. I oame here, and when I got here, I was told
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